Hi Jim more on evolution?

[Jim]

Hi jimsun.

Thanks for your post. I think you bring some important issues into sharper focus.

Like Wilber and many others going back to and before Jung, I think we need much more than a scientific worldview if we want to live full, rich, deep, meaningful lives which include full-strength spirituality complete with higher states and stages and radical transformation.

Like Wilber and many others, I'm also well aware that we cannot rely on a perennial philosophy or a spiritual vision that fails to take science adequately into account.

In order to reconcile a spiritual vision and a scientific worldview, if that's even possible, and I think it is, we have to make some compromises, but the question is where? It's easy to say "let's go post-metaphysical," but what does this actually mean in terms of fundamental questions about mind, self, consciousness, free will, and our evolutionary origins?

How do we avoid quadrant absolutism of both the third-person and first-person varieties?

And how do we do all this while taking development, and different kinds of development, into account?

At this time, Ken Wilber happens to be the most popular and influential proponent of an "integral" approach to reconciling spiritual and scientific visions, as well as the most comprehensive. If someone else was in that role at this time and Elias was generous enough to provide and maintain a forum in that individual's name and the same interesting people who post here posted there, I'd post there too. This forum is just a place where I like to bounce ideas around, and because Wilber happens to be the person in the aforementioned role, I use his work to bounce ideas off of.

I think that we get a different picture of development and spirituality depending on how we answer fundamental questions about mind, self, consciousness, free will, and our evolutionary origins. I don't think anyone is in a position at this time to say they know the truth about these matters, and this is why I think these matters should be kept open for discussion.

If someone says "Rupert Sheldrake" and someone else responds by saying "pseudoscience," the conversation is over before it's had a chance to begin, and we won't have a chance to consider if there is some part of Sheldrake's ideas that we might want to include in a deeper and wider vision of the way the world is. Just so, if someone names a mainstream scientists or philosopher and someone else says "flatland reductionist," that's the end of the conversation and we won't have a chance, collectively at least, to consider if there is some part of that scientist's or philosopher's ideas that we might want to include in a deeper and wider vision. (Obviously, including part of someone's ideas in a greater vision is not the same as buying into their overall worldview.) Perhaps some conversations should end quickly and some should never begin, but I think some conversations end too quickly because we are too quick to prejudge.

That's basically where I'm coming from.

[kela]

i'm workin on it.

i'm doin ju-jit-su. boxing. submissions (arm-bars etc.)

bring it on, ass hole!!

[Bright_Abyss]

Kela!

You into MMA now? I retired from competition in 2002 -- after losing 2 in a row. I still train 3 times a week though...

Did you watch Tito beat down Ken last night?

My style is identical with Tito's. I trained with him for two days last summer in Cali, because a friend of mine works for Zuffa promotions. He laid a beating on me...lol. Very cool guy though. Bigger heart than people know...

~lol~

Is MMA integral?

How do takedowns, armbars, and double underhooks fit into AQAL?

cheers~
_________________
The Artist Formerly Known As PATHOS ~
http://integralpraxis.blogspot.com

[Charles]

haha...i recall you mentioning that you knew MMA, but I didn't know you were so into it you scrapped with Tito.

i just got into watching UFC recently and was not surprised Tito defeated Shamrock easily. i wished Arlovski would have pulled it off but Sylvia is the shit.

i'm impressed mike. you're so integral! haha...just word with ya.

[MarkDavid]

Ha!

Nice to see fellow MMA fans out there!

I trained MMA for about seven years-- some Sancho, Muy Thai, Jeet Kune Do, and Brazillian. I never fought outside of sparring in class though. God just didn't grant me the stamina to endure the kind of training you really need to do to be a professional (and dam if I didn't totally love getting whacked in the head all the time either). On the ground or up top, once your endurance goes you are totally word.

I quit in my late 20s when I started worrying much more about not getting hurt than having fun. Now I do power yoga--all of the heat, some of the challenge, but better for your joints.

By the way, did anyone see the headbutt today by the french guy? An old JKD instructor of mine considered headbutting the "atomic bomb" of the street fight. Obviously, one would go for the chin or face (which grabbing the back of the head and pulling down), not the chest. But even so. That was a stupid move--like Jordan knocking someone out in a game seven overtime--but on some other level it was totally gorgeous. Perfect technique!

Mark

[MarkDavid]

Oh and by the way...

JKD is totally integral. The ranges of combat it incorporates are like the levels--got to train each. Also, Lee had a really spiritual side and a great sense of psychology. He was 30 years ahead of his time--it took the UFC to catch up with him.

In fact, it was the JFD guys, Vunak and a former instructor of mine named Joe Maffei, who first hosted the Gracies in the US (back in the very early 90s). Vunak said Rickson made him feel like a little girl when he first rolled with him. Somewhat shortly after that, the UFC hit.

Yours,
Mark

[Bright_Abyss]

Charles: don't make me... LOL. Hows things with you bro? I never scrapped Tito, I 'rolled' with him, as a fan.

MarkD: Sounds cool. I'm a big fan of Bruce as well. I thought Tito did a great job although I would have liked to see it go all 3 rounds. I too wanted to see Andre take it, but it was a boring fight. Overall, the PPV was not worth the $40 canuck dollars I paid to watch it at home.

I just watched Rickson's first Pride fight on DVD. He was good.

The Gracies have my respect, but MMA has evolved so much since the early days. Hughes beat Royce down hard.

I've beat a few BJJ black belts simple because it's hard to pull a submission when you have elbows in yer face. Just don't give them time to think -- get after them...

Ground and pound all the way for me. My takedowns are crazy, but like you my endurance has been suspect. Maybe if I could train fulltime, but that's a dream long past...

Cheers~
_________________
The Artist Formerly Known As PATHOS ~
http://integralpraxis.blogspot.com

[EarToEar]

Sergei Kharitonov on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/results?search=Kharitonov&search_type=search_videos

tuffest-meanest fukker around?
[it's the bodyshots dude]

or babyface compatriot e. fedor?


someone kill silva at least
; wish Randy'd had a chance.
He was some ageless champ, til those fluke eye injury prob's dominated...

[EarToEar]

Frank


Ken when young DID manage to look a lot like Neal Cassady

most integral fighter=
this guy--?



http://www.genkisudo.com/en/index.html#

PS
++++++++++++++++++++

try yr elbows/ground & pound against this BJJ dude!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajXptf21IUc&search=%20bj%20penn